© 2009 Jed

Digital Love: Analog Relationships

I attended the excellent NMK online PR debate last night and came away with plenty to think about. Other than the Q&A session at which point those posing questions became either; a) guarded or b) salesy (it must’ve felt like a shark tank for the one client that attended), the debate covered a lot of interesting areas.

I wanted to pop my hand up a few times, throw something and shout a few times and storm out a few times – but (to the relief of the people I sat with) I did none of that stuff. So I’ll do most of it here and now.

#1 A ‘one world order’ industry

Antony Mayfield suggested that there’s a race on, and that the type of agency that gets to effective online communications first will write the bible on it and own it. In my view (or IMO, if Vikki Chowney will let me be a digital native – for she is the chief of the natives) this is a ridiculous suggestion. The bible is already being written; every time a client hands a huge small pot of gold the industry takes either a step forwards or a step backwards (I will concede that it’s often a step backwards though). However the point remains, while people use the internet to communicate, the bible is being written. Then rewritten. Then burnt and written again. This isn’t traditional communications, it’s fluid, it moves, it changes, it contradicts, it’s human.

No single type of area of communications will lead; the fact that (for all intents and purposes) two distinct areas of communications sat at that table in Zigfrid Von Underbelly highlights that at least two industries know that something is going on. PR wont just wake up one morning and forget about the internet, and neither will digital (and we’re all screwed when the ad boys learn how to turn wifi on).

#2 The general attitude towards public relations

Many of the issues raised at the NMK debate referred to public relations as media relations. Which it is not. I’ve worked in PR (both in traditional, social focused, in-house and agency) for a while now and I’d estimate that media relations makes up for about 10% of my job. Even then, good media relations isn’t ‘let’s create a database and phone people’ it’s ‘I wonder who I know that might be interested in this’. Media relations is relationships with the media – not relationships with Media Disk. That would be Media Disk Relations.

Last night was a tricky one for PR, because the good PR agencies (I.E. those that were savvy enough to know something was happening and turn up) had to support the bad agencies. Most of the issues that came up were issues with bad PR agencies, not good ones.

The idea that PRO’s aren’t in the perfect situation to take over relationships using the internet is crazy. Crazy I tell you.

#3 Measurement

The final throes of the debate centred around digital’s apparent ‘joker’ card – measurement. There are two issues here; measuring influence and using important metrics.

Influence: Those that claim that they can measure influence are being 50% inaccurate. And that’s a bad stat too. Influence means a mass of different things, (I’ll use the bad example that I gave to Andrew Smith at the bar) there could have been one hundred people telling the CEO of Oracle to give Sun Microsystems a wide berth, each holding a tiny bit of influence over the CEO, but then one person strolls over at lunch and states that he thinks the CEO would be stupid to not buy Sun… Influence isn’t a numbers game, it’s a relationships game and PR is perfectly situated to pull out how those relationships work. That’s exactly why sociologists, politicians and psychologists (gasp, even the great Edward Bernays) tend to make great PRO’s. They understand relationships and social mechanics. Neither of which can be measured by click-throughs or bought on Google AdWords.

Important metrics: There is a single metric that is important. Not inlinks, outlinks, internal links, authority, page rank, click-throughs, alexa. But conversions. To come back to Stuart’s bad bar analogy from the event, marketing might make you more attractive, advertising might bring you more short-term attention, digital might bring more click-throughs and promotion might help spread the word, but public relations keeps peoples interest and ensures that the reputation is managed. I’ll take the point that brands cannot guard their own brand identity, because people create that, but PR can influence that. And almost like magic we’re back to influence and social mechanics again!

I’m terribly aware that I’ve babbled on for too long already, so I’m cutting it short and stopping. I’d really like to hear from Anthony and Roger – I have massive respect for both of them (and the other good guys in digital) and I would hate this post to look like a slight on them – it’s not.

I’d love to hear from Ian (massive thanks have to go to Ian – cheers again), Stuart, Drew, Adam, Kerry, Adam, Vikki, Simon, Tim, Ben and anyone else who I had a chat with on the night.

Also, here’s a sort of summary of who’s covered the debate so far…

Lloyd Gofton talks a good talk and treads the steady tightrope of digital and PR.

Peter Hay gives us the PRWeek edit of events.

Jo-Rosie Haffenden throws down the gauntlet of changing public relations to interactive relations (I wholeheartedly agree, but still stubborn as a mule I’ll say public relations is interactive relations).

Rowan Stanfield talks about the debate from the perspective of digital – and gives a comprehensive overview. As you’d expect, I’m preparing a long winded comment.

Danny Whatmough chirps in – but I’m still mad at him for not making it.

Roger Warner expands on his panel chatter further – again, comment is in the post Roger!

  • andismit

    15pc for PR? More like 5pc – certainly if you are looking at technology firms – IDC has been tracking marketing spend in the tech biz for years, and PR never seems to break out of its 5pc share of marketing budget. Digital on the other hand has gone from zero to 12pc and continues to grow.


    The thing that struck me most about the NMK debate was the almost total absence of client side representatives. Debate is a good thing – however, at the moment, it is a debate that doesn’t seem to include probably the most important segment – the clients.


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://wearesocial.net/blog/2009/05/great-game/#comment-9245849" rel="nofollow" title="“The great game” (http://wearesocial.net/)">We Are Social

  • Here here Ged!


    OK, so we are broadly in agreement?


    …some are bored with the debate..others are using it to demonstrate that they get it and should be invited to the clients’ table (PRs, SEMs, specialists, ‘conversation agencies’ etc) ….slow lingering deaths to those who fail to adapt….marketing Darwinism in action….survival of the smartest/best at demonstrating what good looks like….. shut up and get on and do it….


    Right ho… I’m going to sign off from this and other debates like this and focus my time and energy on helping others to plan it, do it, measure it, refine it…..


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://wearesocial.net/blog/2009/05/great-game/#comment-9179254" rel="nofollow" title="“The great game” (http://wearesocial.net/)">We Are Social

  • gedcarroll

    This is all a bit tedious, I remember a similar debate when PA Consulting used to do PR for Compaq. PR always has had to duke things out with other disciplines and agencies. Often it hasn’t done it particularly well and as Robin alludes to there is a marketing singularity coming.


    Ultimately the people who will win will be the people most trusted by the client. Will PR die, I doubt it, will PR agencies die – some undoubtedly will (most likely a slow lingering death due to the low barriers to entry), the smartest have already started evolving.


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://wearesocial.net/blog/2009/05/great-game/#comment-9178776" rel="nofollow" title="“The great game” (http://wearesocial.net/)">We Are Social

  • This is all a bit tedious, I remember a similar debate when PA Consulting used to do PR for Compaq. PR always has had to duke things out with other disciplines and agencies. Often it hasn’t done it particularly well and as Robin alludes to there is a marketing singularity coming.


    Ultimately the people who will win will be the people most trusted by the client. Will PR die, I doubt it, will PR agencies die – some undoubtedly will (most likely a slow lingering death due to the low barriers to entry), the smartest have already started evolving.


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://wearesocial.net/blog/2009/05/great-game/#comment-9178776" rel="nofollow" title="“The great game” (http://wearesocial.net/)">We Are Social

  • @ Danny Agreed. Grrrrrrrr!


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://wearesocial.net/blog/2009/05/great-game/#comment-9152852" rel="nofollow" title="“The great game” (http://wearesocial.net/)">We Are Social

  • @ Jonathan – furious agreement it is then :)


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://wearesocial.net/blog/2009/05/great-game/#comment-9087236" rel="nofollow" title="“The great game” (http://wearesocial.net/)">We Are Social

  • @ Danny – I guess my point (done in a slightly tongue-in-not-so-serious-cheek way, granted) was that we should stop debating it, talking about it and agreeing on different bits in unison. . . and just focus on DOING it.


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://wearesocial.net/blog/2009/05/great-game/#comment-9085222" rel="nofollow" title="“The great game” (http://wearesocial.net/)">We Are Social

  • I’m afraid I disagree with Stephen and Jonathan, I think this debate is great, relevant and has really been missing at an ‘industry’ level (whatever that means) for some time, even if it has been very active internally. Broader perspectives are always useful.


    I do agree with Katie and Michelle though, the definitions we use are irrelevant (indeed that is the main thrust of my post on the subject – http://www.dannywhatmough.com/2009/04/22/its-pr…; ).


    I also think Ian makes a valid point. Trad PR is in many ways ideally placed to handle the new wave of marketing/PR/conversation/social media (whatever you want to call it).


    The gauntlet has been thrown – many of us (call us whatever you want) are eager and willing to rise to the challenge.


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://wearesocial.net/blog/2009/05/great-game/#comment-9052182" rel="nofollow" title="“The great game” (http://wearesocial.net/)">We Are Social

  • I’m with Wadds . . . a little bit bored by the #PRdebate.


    I reckon the proof is in the pudding, actions speak louder than words and the early bird catches the worm . . . etc


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://wearesocial.net/blog/2009/05/great-game/#comment-9031514" rel="nofollow" title="“The great game” (http://wearesocial.net/)">We Are Social

  • For the last 100 years, PR has not been recognised as central to a brand’s strategy. The media buyer/planners have effectively controlled the marketing budget. The agency that has the largest slice of cash controls all the others to a large extent. That’s normally advertising and this is how the conversation goes:


    A: "Yeah – and put in 20% for some PR"; B: "Why?"; A: "Yeah – you’ve got to do that to get some press and that"; B: "Mmmm – maybe 15% ?"; A: "Yeah: OK".


    We enter the social media ‘age’ (or whatever it is) and PR firms have been given a golden opportunity to reinvent themselves as the conversation specialists. The people on top of what people are talking about.To my mind, far too few agencies are alive to that. They ought to be trouncing digital teams because their specialisation is relationships. Yet they are not.


    I could not expect the event to do much more than get people really talking and worrying and thinking. Hopefully, thanks to input like yours, Robin, that’s happening.


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://wearesocial.net/blog/2009/05/great-game/#comment-9031046" rel="nofollow" title="“The great game” (http://wearesocial.net/)">We Are Social

  • iandelaney

    For the last 100 years, PR has not been recognised as central to a brand’s strategy. The media buyer/planners have effectively controlled the marketing budget. The agency that has the largest slice of cash controls all the others to a large extent. That’s normally advertising and this is how the conversation goes:


    A: "Yeah – and put in 20% for some PR"; B: "Why?"; A: "Yeah – you’ve got to do that to get some press and that"; B: "Mmmm – maybe 15% ?"; A: "Yeah: OK".


    We enter the social media ‘age’ (or whatever it is) and PR firms have been given a golden opportunity to reinvent themselves as the conversation specialists. The people on top of what people are talking about.To my mind, far too few agencies are alive to that. They ought to be trouncing digital teams because their specialisation is relationships. Yet they are not.


    I could not expect the event to do much more than get people really talking and worrying and thinking. Hopefully, thanks to input like yours, Robin, that’s happening.


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://wearesocial.net/blog/2009/05/great-game/#comment-9031046" rel="nofollow" title="“The great game” (http://wearesocial.net/)">We Are Social

  • You gotta try and make the next one Danny. Would be good to catch up. Really, on the night, we (the digital debaters) weren’t trying to put things in boxes. We were asking ‘what has Big PR done to earn the right to lead clients in Online…?’


    My beef is that service models haven’t changed, and because of this many (traditional Media Relations) firms are losing out and will find themselves sidelined in the short term.


    So, I care less for definitions and more about delivery (as does every single client right now)… and its this that a classic PR agency isnt addressing.


    Meantime, everything you say is absolutely right. But what does this look like in a ‘new’ PR firm…? There’s not much going on right now….


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://www.dannywhatmough.com/2009/04/22/its-pr-but-not-as-we-know-it/#comment-406" rel="nofollow" title="“It’s PR, but not as we know it” (http://www.dannywhatmough.com/)">Danny Whatmough.com

  • The bible analogy worries me too but mainly because the bible was written well after anything that may or may not have actually happened, and in the case of the new testament was ruthlessly edited and much content left out. So if the online bible is being written right now by the current leaders in this space, all their doctrine is most likely to be chucked out in favour of the eventual winners.

    I must admit though that while I thought the debate was a little flat and mainly preaching to the converted, the usual social media bollox quotient(SMBQ) was very low. I normally get SMBQ induced tourettes at this kinda of event and I only felt like swearing once the whole evening and I can't quite remember what about now. That said I felt that as well as the deliberate mis-representation of PR there was also a general and worrying lack of knowledge about what we do outside of media relations.

    I too have rambled on too long so in conclusion; I feel that the winners will be the PR agencies who integrate digital as a key competency into all account handling staff or the digital agencies that integrate PR skills, and no just media relations, into their chaps.

    So the killer question is which is the easiest to do?
  • Tim Aldiss

    I guess this blurring you talk of, or convergence, is really what the problem around defining the semantics and nomenclature is all about. In digital marketing we conduct activity from most disciplines for most clients – indeed it’s almost critical to a successful campaign. Don’t forget that seo used to just be that before it became search engine marketing when it embraced link building. With outreach in tow now as part of success we should just call it digital marketing and be done with it!


    Tim Aldiss’s last blog post..IBM on change, intelligence, connectivity and analytics


    This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://www.dannywhatmough.com/2009/04/22/its-pr-but-not-as-we-know-it/#comment-402" rel="nofollow" title="“It’s PR, but not as we know it” (http://www.dannywhatmough.com/)">Danny Whatmough.com

  • Actually I wasn't at the debate - the piece I wrote about Social Media measurement has been on the backburner for a while and just happened to be published today. It wasn't a response to last night's discussion, but rather a summary of our current thinking in general. Wish I could have been at the debate though - sounds like it was an interesting night.
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